Don’t forget Ross Young, Alistair Smith and Richard Kelly.
umm Brennan Stack, Joel Houghton and Jarrad Irons.
TT doesn’t know his footy.
[quote=“Stand the Test post=203786”]Yuk it up TT. Miserable.
This thread is about the lack of depth in a low socio economic zone. Drag all the red herrings across our path you like TT. Low socio economic factors produce poor outcomes.
For example PFC on field performance.
You haven’t put up an argument against that proposition, nor are you likely to be able to.
[/quote]
This thread was started because Perth’s colts were beaten by Swan Districts colts by 100 points last week.
Swan Districts zone has a similar socioeconomic status (SES) to Perth’s zone.
Swan Districts also beat Subiaco’s colts by over 100 points in the preseason. Subiaco zone has a better SES than Swans.
How are these two results possible?
Studies have shown that a low SES impacts participation in physical activity including structured sport. There is no link between SES and an individuals sporting ability though, just the individuals opportunity or likelihood to participate.
In 2011 the state government introduced the Kidsport program which reduces the financial barrier for low SES players to participate through the provision of vouchers to offset rego and uniform fees.
The 2009 WAFC zone review showed very similar participation rates in all WAFL zones. Hardly surprising given that rezoning to provide an even level of football participants for WAFL clubs is a key objective.
A Perth board member and Junior Club President stated under oath at the Parliamentary Enquiry into the WAFC Funding that Perth FC failed to engage with its junior clubs. This feedback has been given by an active PFL club member from the Perth zone repeatedly on this forum.
The PFC zone consistently produces AFL quality talent including several elite AFL players.
So you have good levels of participation, your zone produces great talent at comparable numbers to most WAFL clubs as shown by your AFL draftees and a large number apparently return to Perth when their AFL career has finished?
Tell me how your zone is worse than every other WAFL club again?
You don’t know your footy or much else it would seem.
Enjoy your footy mate.
This thread was started because Perth’s colts were beaten by Swan Districts colts by 100 points last week.
Swan Districts zone has a similar socioeconomic status (SES) to Perth’s zone.
Swan Districts also beat Subiaco’s colts by over 100 points in the preseason. Subiaco zone has a better SES than Swans.
How are these two results possible?
Studies have shown that a low SES impacts participation in physical activity including structured sport. There is no link between SES and an individuals sporting ability though, just the individuals opportunity or likelihood to participate.
In 2011 the state government introduced the Kidsport program which reduces the financial barrier for low SES players to participate through the provision of vouchers to offset rego and uniform fees.
The 2009 WAFC zone review showed very similar participation rates in all WAFL zones. Hardly surprising given that rezoning to provide an even level of football participants for WAFL clubs is a key objective.
A Perth board member and Junior Club President stated under oath at the Parliamentary Enquiry into the WAFC Funding that Perth FC failed to engage with its junior clubs. This feedback has been given by an active PFL club member from the Perth zone repeatedly on this forum.
The PFC zone consistently produces AFL quality talent including several elite AFL players
[/quote]
TT just out of curiosity how does a WAFL club benefit when players from their club are drafted to the AFL?
His argument is that this proves that a club like PFC is equally capable of having sustained success like Claremont. Forget that sdfc and Pfc only produce half the number of draftees as Claremont. Forget that right away.
Then try and work out what is has to do with depth at WAFL level. He hasn’t bothered of course that’s for you to work out.
Socio economic indicators make NO difference to depth and competitiveness to PFC or SDFC or Claremont for that matter.
If you are poor you just have to work harder!!!
At one stage I thought the guy was worth arguing with but he’s not. Doesn’t know his footy, do you need to at Claremont?
[/quote]
S42, WAFL clubs get very little direct benefit from a player being drafted and completely agree with the point you’re going to make there.
But that’s not the same argument STD is making about Perth’s zone needing to be fixed after your colts touched up Perth’s last week.
Yes I invented this argument a week ago. Of course I did. Geesh.
S42, WAFL clubs get very little direct benefit from a player being drafted and completely agree with the point you’re going to make there.
But that’s not the same argument STD is making about Perth’s zone needing to be fixed after your colts touched up Perth’s last week.
[/quote]
Actually there is a direct detrimental impact to a WAFL club (other than Peel) if a player from their club is drafted to the Eagles or Dockers. The original WAFL club loses a player and one of their opponents gains a player.
To me the point that Perth supporters are making is their club has very little hope of having some consecutive seasons of success in terms of making finals and potentially winning a GF and that there is little or no recognition from the WAFC to redress that situation.
Thank you S42, that is it in a nutshell.
Ted Nugent “So no-one from Belmont, Maddington, Kenwick, Gosnells. There are, I think, very few local players knocking on the door from the reserves and our colts are clearly in for a long season.”
If PFC could get off their collective backsides and do something (friggn ANYTHING!!!) with those Clubs, that would change.
I am hearing that Swan Districts have lifted their game with community Clubs but has anyone else?
The WAFL claims to be ‘community based’.
How about the community actually sees something from WAFL Clubs to back that up.
Can your coaches do their Level One through PFC?
Were junior club reps invited to match day lunches for ages and were coaches given access on match day to behind the scenes stuff?
Are end of years still done at Latho with everyone in for free?
Havd players come to training and carnivals? Are PFC people at finals?
Does your club ever experience difficulty getting good coaches?
Does your club ever experience difficulty with kids not turning up to training/not having right gear/not paying fees?
Mate I feel your pain but having a crack at PFC is not the answer. PFC is in exactly the same boat as it’s junior clubs, struggling because of inputs. The PFC is an outcome of the zone, not really an input.
The community club stuff is a load of old tosh.
WAFL clubs exist to win flags, of course they do.
What exactly have you heard about swans? What are they doing? You think if sdfc or sffc of sfc has your club in its zone it would be any different?
And yes I am making excuses for PFC,damn right. It deserves them. It has a difficult zone and then people in the zone whinge about it rather than helping it.
Everyone in the zone should be saying it’s not good enough, not pointing finger at each other,
Under the current system our poor kids have nothing to aim for that they might reach - it is afl or bust. PFC is underesourced and piss weak. They hate it but what can they do???
What can PFC realistically do with your club yo improve the depth of its list? Be honest the answer is, with the meagre resources it has, nothing.
I feel you mate but you are way off.
I certainly haven’t read all 29 pages of this conversation and sorry if my 2 cents worth has already been said. Perth’s involvement in the zones are terrible. Unless a current player or coach is somehow involved in the junior club PFC has very little involvement - if any. I have many many examples of PFC lack of involvement in the zone where other clubs do a lot more. There may be many reasons for this ($ and work commitments for example).
Welcome to the debate PD.
What is required, I think , is
- Examples
- What would you like PFC to do that it is not
- An argument for how if PFC did those things it would turn PFC’s low socio economic zone into one capable of delivering the club with the depth needed to be competitive.
- Some examples of players in our zone who have moved to other clubs because of PFC lack of engagement in the zone and ‘really showed us.’
The debate is really about the quality of our zone but supporters of other clubs, and you, are trying to make it about PFC work in the zone. That’s fine but the above relevant in that context.
Cheers
[quote=““PD1899 post=203816”]I certainly haven’t read all 29 pages of this conversation and sorry if my 2 cents worth has already been said. Perth’s involvement in the zones are terrible. Unless a current player or coach is somehow involved in the junior club PFC has very little involvement - if any. I have many many examples of PFC lack of involvement in the zone where other clubs do a lot more. There may be many reasons for this ($ and work commitments for example).”
Johnny Leonard
Pd1899, dangerous words. I recommend all 29 pages. I’m just wondering if this thread could be made into a play of some kind.
it’s very entertaining and interesting. It covers the big questions for any society: what is fair in life? How should resources be allocated? What causes differences in outcomes - intrinsic or environmental factors? TT and STT would be the main characters in this dialogue.
What was different in the 70s when Perth were good? When Wiley and Murray Cooper were playing? Was it more manufacturing jobs between the beach and the hills and so more stable families? Just asking.
[/quote]
Nowhere near 1 million in population in the 1970’s , zones that were far far smaller in both size & number and which were representative of each club’s lie mostly
And a sport bias that was really big on Aussie Rules & of course Cricket - even Soccer was quite small in popularity
No mandurah crap and country towns had their supported club for many decades prior
Yes, interesting Southerner.
But what happened to Perth? Did anything happen to their zone in comparison to the other clubs? Were there better jobs in the Carlisle area then? Has Perth become more uneven? What is the difference in house prices now between Carlisle and Claremont and what was it then?
The Perth zone has equal junior players but they apparently aren’t as good as the other kids jn Perth and haven’t been for 40 years. Why?
Or is TT correct and the above paragraph false?
[quote=“Southerner post=203836”]Nowhere near 1 million in population in the 1970’s , zones that were far far smaller in both size & number and which were representative of each club’s lie mostly
And a sport bias that was really big on Aussie Rules & of course Cricket - even Soccer was quite small in popularity
No mandurah crap and country towns had their supported club for many decades prior
[/quote]
The big difference between the socio-economic mix from past era’s lets say up the the end of the 70’s is immigration. I don’t think family wealth made such a big difference back in the 60’s/70’s. Didn’t matter if your old man was a carpenter or a doctor, one might argue the son of a carpenter might be a bit harder at the contest. The common thing was all 8 WAFL clubs zones were full of Aussies and the Italians and Yugoslav’s seemed to adapt to our game better than the African/Indian/Middle East/Asian immigrants of today.
South Fremantle and West a Perth are testament to that. I know for a fact that suburbs like Kewdale, Rivervale, Belmont, Bentley, Cannington, Queens Park today are heavily populated with these immigrants. We know the African kids are adapting to AFL footy although the game is foreign to them when they arrive here, more so their parents but we might see the sons of the sons and daughters who are born here take the game up from a young age.
What percentage of the modern day immigrants take up residency in the rich western suburbs, or Fremantle and either side of Canning Hwy, or the northern coastal corridor? Not until you get east of Wanneroo Rd, then all of a sudden you feel like a minority if you are a born and bred Aussie in Nollamara, Balga, Mirrabooka, Girrawheen etc… Same if you are a born and bred Aussie living in Kewdale where Kewdale High School is now a Muslim school. A white Aussie living in Cannington? You’d look out of place.
I look at Claremont yesterday and I don’t see a hint of anything but white Australian kids who’s parents are brought up on Aussie rules football and they have very few imports outside their zone.
People had to assimilate in the past, an expectation, which, is largely non-existent today.
Interesting social changes there but that still doesn’t explain why Perth zoned kids aren’t as successful. They are equal in number to other clubs. Is the standard of junior footy just not as good?
Jl: It is not about the standard of the football, rather, it is if one can afford the boots.